Assuming God does exist, and all 66 books in what we now know as the Christian/Protestant Bible are his words (and the hundred of others that didn't make it in were not), is it really clear that "God hates fags" (popular slogan and sign)? It is clear that gays are going to hell? Is anything clear on this topic? Is homosexuality any more or less moral than heterosexuality? Discuss!

For a good laugh, have a look at these signs: www.happyplace.com/8958/the-most-hilario...g-gay-marriage-signs

The slogan "God hates fags" is just that: a slogan, propaganda. God loves all of His creation/creatures but does not always approve of their lifestyles. Homosexuality is a distorted relationship, both in the creature to creature and in the creature to Creator sense. Practicing homosexuality should not necessarily be elevated above other sins. It just happens to be a sin that is clamoring for a lot of attention. If people were waving about signs that read "Gossip is not a destructive lifestyle or practice" or "Gossip doesn't hurt anybody" they would be equally wrong. --Adam

Even the ones he allows to suffer in Hell for eternity, when he has the power to free them? Is this what "love" means to you? I have heard of parents murdering their children "out of love" so they can "go to better place" -- and that even make some sense... but allowing someone to suffer for eternity out of "love"? Either God HATES most of his creation or love=hate. Do you really think God would not approve of a loving, caring relationship just because of a sexual act? I know the "Bible says it" so it must be God's word, But what if the Bible were referring to the act of male prostitution and/or rape, rather than a loving relationship between two adults of the same sex?
Distorted in what way? Many homosexuals have more complete relationships that heterosexuals based on trust, love and respect -- isn't that what should matter most? We are not talking about entering a relationship for procreation, just one for love.
You equate homosexuality to gossip. I never considered gossip a "sin" but I guess I can see how it can hurt others wrongfully. A gay couple does no more harm than a straight couple, besides to those who are "offended" by their lifestyle due to archaic Biblical beliefs.

Question: can we both agree that we can throw out the passage in Leviticus as evidence that God (currently) disapproves of the gay lifestyle? Since that was part of his "old covenant" before Jesus (although Jesus made it perfectly clear, as did first Timothy, that all scripture is to be followed).

I wish I knew how to speak more clearly or eloquently, but I don't, so I'll ask you to come down to me and bear with me for a moment. I think ( Bo) , when you see God, afterlife, Hell, you see something physical. I don't see physical or material, I see spiritual or the soul. I see Eve as a living soul and satan as a spirit. You put flesh on Eve and make her a physical person. I see her as personality, as attitude, having thoughts. You put far to much value on the person in the flesh, rather then who that person is by the spirit they have. Without having the spirit of Christ, how can there be an eternity offered to him. He ( you), are born, you lived for so many years and you return to the dust that you came from. That will be the end of Bo Bennett. Without God, your no more then the beast in the field. They have no spirit of God and they live only once and then they die. Now, you can take on the spirit of evil or Abomination and that spirit will be judged. I don't mean any of this in a mean spirited way, and can't see you taking it that way, unless you are spiritual. A baby is born into the world. That baby has been seduced by a spirit of the opposite gender. ( To be quit honest, I was seduced by a spirit of the male gender, only it either never lead me by my sexual desires or I was to strong not to allow it to. ) But, I do and always have had male traits, such as I rather sit with a group of men and lesson to them talk then to bearound a group of women. I would rather do guy things then women things. I have a shop with every power tool made for man, but none of the silly stuff that women care about. I've always called myself a tom boy, but I think it's more then that. What ever spirit has ahold of me, has been around for a very long time. When you took what I said about you being anti Christ, I was surprised that, that bothered you. If someone said that to me, it would bother me, but you believing the way you do, I can't ,for the life of me understand why that would offend you. You either believe that God is real or you believe that there is no such thing. I think God has demonstrated what Adam and I share with our God. What do you think? I've been rattling on all damn day, trying to make a point with this and it just gets to the point where I know I should dump the whole thing, but don't want to admit I wasted the day, so here it is.

Say what you mean and mean what you say. Best rule of communication -- better than using big words that I have to constantly look up.
I see only what others believe. How do you explain Jesus' bodily resurrection and bodily ascension into Heaven? Many places in the Bible it is quite clear bodies are involved in the afterlife. Your spiritual belief, although interesting, does not appear to be Biblical.
What is that "spirit of evil"? Not believing in invisible magical beings? Will I be "judged" for this? And what will the punishment be bu the God who loves me?
I didn't lose any sleep.
I think God has a lot more "demonstrating" to do.

Perfect response!

Love you Bo. Have a great weekend and THANK GOD THAT THE STORM DOWNGREADED TO A LITTLE WIND BLOWING YOUR WAY.

The only distortion In relationships that I see here is your view.

You homophobia is distorting your notions of what love is supposed to be.

You should really stop fixating on other peoples junk.

This woman has a look for you that says it all about your anti-Christ attitude..



http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/11/08/minnesota.catholic.gay.marriage/index.html?eref=rss_latest&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_latest+%28RSS%3A+Most+Recent%29

Sin is done when a victim is created. You are hard at it.

Regards

DL

@ Great, I got to tell you, I found this to be the biggest joke of all time. The very denomination that has most likely caused so many to grow up, filled with confusion and lead in the direction of destruction because of the very thing that the priest and leaders of this same denomination did to its children. They themselves, deprive themselves from enjoying the natural pleasures of sexual intercourse, then turn to the children to relieve there misery. I have had the pleasure of knowing a few gay people through the years and I have to say, I never met one who wasn't a joy and a pleasure to know. With that being said, I will add, I feel the very same as Adam. Not only because it says so in the word of God, that it is an abomination, but also because it isn't natural. Im not talking about two men/women loving each other, caring for each other or even wanting to live together and share the same benefits as any couple who are under a contract. I'm talking about the use of the body. People changing their natural use of their bodies. This is where humans are pushing themselves past what they are or were meant to be. Now, we are accepting this lifestyle as normal. Next, we will be saying its ok for sisters and brothers to marry. Then, why not a mother marrying her son, or daughter. I mean, where does it stop. Where do we draw the line. You accused Adam of fixating on other peoples junk. Its that very junk that seems to be causing all the problems here.

Linda, you get haircuts? (Lev 19:27) Shave you legs? Wear clothes made of more than one material? (Lev 19:19) These are the same "laws" to the same people, in the same "breath" that shares you "abomination" line. You, like virtually all Bible-believing Christians, keep the laws that you like, then excuse away the rest. When you think about it, homosexuality is no of a moral law than having more than one crop on the same field (Lev 19:19).
I wholeheartedly agree that procreation between same sex partners is not natural, but sex? It is clear that most Christians think God wants them to have sex for pleasure, so why is pleasure between the same sex not natural? Homosexuality in nature is abundant -- we have scientific, observational evidence for this. You are free to say that it isn't natural TO YOU, just like it isn't natural to me (I loves the ladies!), but homosexual behavior is certainly present in nature -- outside of "sinful" humans.
Who drew the line in the first place? Certainly not your God... the Bible is full of incest (Lot and his daughters, children of Adam and Eve, children of Noah, etc.), pedophilia, and other sexual acts that make "Drilling Ms. Daisy" look like a Disney flick.

Your same argument, "where do we draw the line?" was a popular argument made my people just a generation or two ago on racially, socially, and religiously mixed marriages.

Does accepting homosexuality mean we need to accept bestiality? No. They are two different "lifestyles" that should be argued for on their own merits. And I cannot defend the latter.

Personally, I am uncomfortable (very) seeing two men kiss. But I recognize that my uncomfortableness is MY problem -- not the homosexuals. Never would I fight to keep two men from feeling the kind of love and happiness I experience with my lover (who happens to be a woman) just because it makes me "uncomfortable".

You might note that where the Bible draws the line, you should not even be voting woman.

Thank God, so to speak, that you are not living under some man because your bible tells you to. Where is your loyalty to women for Christs sake?

What the hell are you? A masochist or what?

Regards

DL

It also says that animals can talk.

Both statements have as much validity.
Nor would Ii but God also endorses bestiality.

He is not of our species yet uses our species to reproduce himself. A strange concept but that is tradition and dogma.

He also allowed what are called the children of God, the angels, fallen or just on R & R, to use the earth as a brothel, even while knowing he would have to genocide man's ass to rid himself of these Nephelims. What an idiot God.

Regards

DL

Hello, my name is Kelly Zens. I do not usually participate in these debates. But I enjoy reading them. However, when DL called my husband a homophobe, I decided to respond. DL, are you serious? Did you actually read what he said? Do you realize that ad hominem is a logical fallacy? My husband is most definitely not a homophobe. If you had read his statements you would know that. Unless you also consider him a gossip-phobe. He clearly stated that homo-sexuality is equal to other sins in the Bible like gossip. And like gossip homo-sexuality is harmful to the people practicing it (creating victims). Are you going to seriously maintain that the homo-sexual lifestyle is not harmful? Here is what I find incredibly ammusing. Society today has no problem telling people that smoking, drinking, and overeating are harmful. But we can not tell people that homo-sexuality is harmful. Really? Is that love? I think that is highly suspect. If I were a homo-sexual I would want someone to care about me enough to encourage me to a more healthful lifestyle. In case you can not see the glaring hypocrisy here, I will illustrate. Both obesety and alcoholism have been shown to have a biological component. Both also have an element of choice/lifestyle. Show me someone who claims to love these people that would encourage them to continue their lifestyle. Bo, do you really consider it part of a loving relationship to contribute to your partner's long, slow, painful death?

I have to say DL, I too find the "homophobic" title pretty ironic. Homophobia is an extreme and irrational aversion to homosexuality and homosexual people. Adam (my dad) explicitly typed:

"God loves all of his creation/creatures but does not always approve of their lifestyles".

Does that honestly sound like extreme aversion to you? When he argues against atheism do you call him atheophobic? Would you say he abhores or fears alchoholics if he began arguing against excessive drinking? "Homophobia" is a pretty strong title to be pinning on somebody, so perhaps you should think a little bit before using it again.

Hi Kelly and welcome! Let me start by saying that there are not many people I enjoy conversing with more than you husband... it is always interesting

From you comments, you seem to be referring to aids and/or other STDs? Aids is a virus spread my humans -- of any sexual orientation. It is mostly spread by casual, unprotected, sex, and yes, very high in the homosexual community. The homosexual is at high risk when he/she has multiple partners. But homosexuality is not the cause of disease, and not even the cause of the spread of the disease, it is sexual promiscuity. The homosexual couple today that get blood tests before marriage and stay faithful to each other, is no more at risk than the heterosexual couple who do the same. Homosexuality does not equal sexual promiscuity -- even if the average homosexual tends to be more promiscuous.

So to answer your question, no, I do not consider it a part of a loving relationship to contribute to my partner's long and painful death. If a disease/virus free couple marry and remain faithful, they are contributing to keeping each other from casual sex with other partners, thus saving each others lives. Those who deny them the right to marriage, thus inadvertently discouraging monogamous relationships, and publicly condemn them for their lifestyle, are actually contributing to their long and painful deaths.

Bo, Since when did marriage ever cause anyone to be faithful to anyone.

Point well taken But statistically, we do have to admit that those in marriage have fewer sexual partners than those single -- significantly fewer.

And what about the swinging population! That has become very popular over the past 40 years. These people are a big orgy going on and their every where. The couple next door to you could be a swinging couple and you would never have a clue until they invite you over one night to party with them. Married gays are no different then single gays. If your into multiple partners, then your going to have multiple partners. The more the human race evolves, the more likely they will become freer and more laxed in their moral behavior.

Linda, you have told us before that you have had (6?) husbands, so it is not a mystery as to why you would think that married guys and single guys have the same "orgy prone" behavior, but statistically, this is far the case. We are not using Linda's ex-husbands as a sample here, we are using all married men (at least in US -- excluding Utah). There are many people that honor the commitment of marriage, myself included (15 years and counting).

Five husbands, 7 marriages, ( 2, I married twice). I really wasn't thinking about myself Bo. Remember, I worked for 30 years in a bar. I've seen a lot over those years. But, to be quit honest, It's more about now then when I was in the world ( sort to speak). Its the last couple of generations that the gays have come out, divorce is common and open marriage is a way of life. Another thing, we are talking about the acts of sex and how we are using or abusing our bodies. All my husbands were, as far as I knew, straight, of legal age and were not into sharing what is supposed to be between the two of us. Some, thought it was ok to share with others, while I sat at home, but damn sure didn't desire to share me. Another thing. I have and still am and will to the day that my flesh dies, pay for my foolishness. In no way, do I pardon myself for the life that I lived. I might have been married a few times, but I bet I had less partners then most have in a life time. Hows the weather up there? I know that you honor your marriage. That is one of the beautiful things about you that caused me to think morally good thoughts about you. I know who you are!

Not to be mean Linda, but I have 5 atheist male buddies who are 46, a couple married and none of them have had more than 4 partners. A couple married as virgins and r stll married. I'm the rogue of the bunch and never been to an orgy nor know anyone who has been. B4 i got married ( long ago) i woulda loved to experience one Your husband count makes u more promiscuous than most people I know, and I know very few religious people. Mostly atheists.

Terry, Its a big, big world out there with billions of people living in it, not to mention all those who have come and gone. Lets not get so petty as to point fingers at each other. If you don't have something nice to say to someone who's path you will cross in life, Wouldn't it be best to just keep your thoughts to yourself.

Linda, I am very sorry that you have had a hard life and bad experiences with men. My experience has been quite different. Most people that I know get married because they want to be in a monogamous relationship with the person they love for the rest of their lives. Now obviously the divorce rate shows that not everyone is successful. But I believe that is usually the intention. So the very act of marriage codifies a couples desire to be monogamous (usually). I have included two articles that show that the rate of cheating in marriage is somewhere between 11-20%. (Meaning only 11-20% of spouses ever cheat on their partner.) This agrees with my experience. It also agrees with polls showing that 90% of Americans think it is wrong to cheat on your spouse for any reason. I believe that this reflects a wonderful leap forward in both the treatment and status of women. And it also reflects (in my opinion) a great leap in the quality and fairness of men. http://www.usnews.com/news/national/articles/2008/03/27/how-common-are-cheating-spouses

http://www.forbes.com/2009/06/28/sanford-ensign-affair-opinions-columnists-extramarital-sex.html

I hope this gives you a better view of men and marriage.

Blessings

Bo, I think it is interesting that you acknowledge that AIDs is very high in the homo-sexual community and then proceed to explain that the cause is promiscuity. Do you know that or do you think that? Is that the only cause of AIDs? And if so, why is it so much higher in the homo-sexual community? So are you saying that homo-sexuals are more promiscuous than hetro-sexuals? Are you saying the only reason that they are more promiscuous is that they can not get married? My gay friends are not really any more promiscuous than my straight ones. I think there is a little more to it than that. Michael Fumento wrote an interesting book titled "The Myth of Hetro-sexual Aids" before it became politically incorrect to study these things. I sincerely hope that more study goes into AIDs and I also hope a cure it found. But in the meantime, I think it is dangerous to tell people it is safe. Are you going to enforce monogamy on the homo-sexual couples?

I have the same problem with legalizing gay marriage as I do legalizing drugs. I do not think it is the government's job to tell people how to live their lives. But I do think it would be very wrong in both cases for the government to give their stamp of approval to livestyles that cause death. That would be immoral for the state to do. It would open up many other issues. It would certainly leave the state wide open for lawsuits in both cases. And since homo-sexuals do have the right to practice their lifestyle as well as freedom of speech, religion, press ect., I do not see them as unduly oppressed.

Marriage has traditionally been understood to be between a woman and a man. To re-define it in this manner will most definitely have an impact on society. The sad thing is that you can not intelligently or rationally even discuss what type of impact it will have without someone assuming that you are a hateful, gay-bashing, homo-phobe.

Marriage has never really been considered an inalienable right. The Constitution does not say everyone has a right to get married. Marriage has been considered a divine gift. To free it from its religious context is to do a great disservice to both the history and definition of marriage.

As for the Leviticus passage, it is fine by me if you get rid of it. I don't know many Christians who would use it. I usually hear Romans 1:21-26 quoted. But again, this is no more great a sin than gluttony or any other sin. To God, sin is sin. But He does care because all sin harms people. I care because my gay friend is now dead. I do not think this is okay.

Hi Kelly and welcome to the conversations. Infidelity wasn't the reason for my marriage failures. If they had been, I wouldn't have re married two of them and be willing to try again. The problem was mostly me, but thats another story. After reading the link you shared, I have to say, those percentages you gave don't really match the CBS polls. And, I'm not saying anything because of some poll that has been done out there. I'm saying what I claim, because of being out there and living in the world. I most likely have an advantage on you as well in the fact that I most likely am older then you. The longer you live in the world, unless your hiding under a rock, the more you will experience. This is from the link that you shared. But in polls conducted by CBS News in 1995 and by Gallup in 2008, a much higher figure (around 55%) gave that response. It's unlikely that behavior has changed that dramatically. But the Harris polls were conducted in person, and people may have been reluctant to discuss infidelity (either in general or their own knowledge of it) with a stranger in their living rooms. The CBS and Gallup questions, on the other hand, were asked in telephone polls, where respondents could be anonymous. More recent polls are also conducted in an environment that may make people more comfortable being honest and in an era in which these kinds of affairs are more publicized. I agree with you as far as why we marry and our intentions. I felt the same way ( with two of the five). But I didn't have God in my life back then. If I had, I would have been a different person. God was in my life when I remarried the last one and the only reason I remarried him was, after much prayer, God told me to. I couldn't see it at the time, but have since realized why God put us back together. ( Thats another story). I have a good view of men and marriage. I think men are one of the greatest creations that God ever formed. I have a great respect for marriage. I always wanted that perfect union. To have a help mate. It just wasn't in the cards for me.

Bo, certainly sexual promiscuity is the most common cause for spread of disease, but actually, for homosexual men, engaging in intercourse at all is dangerous. Much more so than if it was done with a woman. This is because the only way (aside from orally) in which they can have intercourse is anally. Wikipedia says:

"Anal sex exposes participants to two principal dangers: infections, due to the high number of infectious

microorganisms not found elsewhere on the body, and physical damage to the anus and the rectum due to their vulnerability. It is generally understood that penetration can be painful.[1] Frequent anal sex is associated with hemorrhoids, anal prolapse, leakage, ano-rectal pain and ulcers and fissures.[5][9][82]

Anal sex carries with it a much greater risk of passing on sexually transmitted diseases than vaginal sex, as the anal sphincter is delicate tissue and the chances of a small tear occurring are much higher, which also provides more opportunity for diseases."



Now I'm fully aware that homosexuals are not the only ones who practice anal sex. But since anal sex is the prominent feature for homosexuals, homosexuality is very dangerous for men. I don't think the gay lifestyle is a natural one, for either gender. I don't believe God created men for men or women for women. However I do not think gay people are any less entitled to human rights than anyone else (except for possibly marriage for health reasons though honestly I'm not sure), I don't think that that lifestyle is anymore sinful than any other sinful lifestyle, and I certainly do not believe people should judge other gay people. I agree with my mom that it would be unkind to act as though the homosexual lifestyle is safe. I also don't believe people should be gay for health reasons (though this doesn't apply to women as much) and for my own religious reasons. Nonetheless, I wouldn't tell someone not to be gay because that lifestyle isn't in line with my religious beliefs. I would advise against it because it puts them and their partner(s) at risk. And although I don't think people should go around shouting "BEING GAY IS BAD FOR YOUUUUUU" like they do with smoking, I do think others should also advise their gay friends not to live that way, regardless of their beliefs, should the topic come up.